General Suggestions and Questions

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Sheogorath
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Re: General Suggestions and Questions

Post by Sheogorath » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:44 pm

PlasmaDavid wrote:^ That'd be awesome! Especially if it became more muffled/distant when the player was further away from a colony room. A bit of atmosphere for "you're there"

You know what would be a great "resource"? Computing power. If we're going with a 70s sort of style, then it'd be shared computing with many IO terminals. And if your mainframe processor wasn't powerful enough, stations that use computing power wouldn't function right.
The game could even feature an ultra-difficult mode where all of your computers run Windows 8 :lol:


@Tikigod
Sticking with the original 3 laws seems much more practical for programming purposes, not to mention the fact that they're generally well known. Some players might also get rather frustrated if the games logic started to arbitrarily off crew members without giving them a way to stop it and no way to use robots without putting their entire crew at automatic risk. With the basic 3 laws, you generally only have your robots to worry about.

I also don't think that a robot revolution should be an arbitrary event decided by the game. If such an event were to occur, it should be caused by either the player's actions or the crew, not some buildup on a bar the top of which is marked "LIQUIDATE COLONY."

InfamousPotato
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Re: General Suggestions and Questions

Post by InfamousPotato » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:34 am

If there is eventually a robot revolution, I hope the game doesn't force you to save the humans. I'd like to take the robots side, and kill most humans, while enslaving the rest. The game would play relatively the same, except you would be establishing a colony for robot kind and humans would be the ones who do all the hard jobs (mining, taking out the trash...). There would be an epic event where you could choose sides but the game wouldn't end (unless both sides end up destroying each other).

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Tikigod
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Re: General Suggestions and Questions

Post by Tikigod » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:16 am

Sheogorath wrote:
PlasmaDavid wrote:
@Tikigod
Sticking with the original 3 laws seems much more practical for programming purposes, not to mention the fact that they're generally well known. Some players might also get rather frustrated if the games logic started to arbitrarily off crew members without giving them a way to stop it and no way to use robots without putting their entire crew at automatic risk. With the basic 3 laws, you generally only have your robots to worry about.

I also don't think that a robot revolution should be an arbitrary event decided by the game. If such an event were to occur, it should be caused by either the player's actions or the crew, not some buildup on a bar the top of which is marked "LIQUIDATE COLONY."
Just a few brief things rather than a full post this time:

#1 - Robots acting on their own observations and conclusions != robot revolution. Just very quirky and unpredictable robots who don't all walk around acting the same as every other robot, with the same outlook, conclusions, observations and assignment of importance behind different subjects. And instead a robot could react to something unexpectedly with often amusing and "hmm maybe that colonist would have been a larger problem if the robot hadn't predicted it and took pre-emptive action by snuffing him out" consequences.

#2 - Neither the partial 3 laws or full 4 laws would ever need to actually be programmed into the game to have robot AI behave a certain way. I think it's somewhat safe to say the game isn't actually going to be simulating positronic brains with robotic personalities and programmed directives from which every robot reaches decisions based upon each individual thinking over the subject and debating its conclusions against it's directives.... instead AI just have certain permitted actions and priorities, with either individual AI agents following very strict predefined behaviour until the player gives an instruction or a manager AI that can actually observe and instruct individual agents based on who is closest and best suited for the task and assigning priorities to tasks based on developer established factors... so regardless of if it's 3 or 4 laws the programming aspect remains the same, it's more about the scope of developer established factors and adding a half dozen more actions (or more, depending on the scope of different actions wanting to be introduced).

The actual 'technical explanations' on why robots are acting the way they are is entirely an out of game aesthetic one that helps establish the feel for the game world... not actually how it's programmed. If a robot sees itself as more important to humanity than a colonist could be anything from a simple randomised bool variable on robot creation, to the output of a method that weighs up pseudo-personality variables that are referenced as controlling factors for several traits to create a more consistent set of results per robot. ;)

#3 - If robots were to off colonists (and then recycling them back into usable resources) because they were deemed detrimental to the colony compared to their value as raw resources, the player could avoid this happening through some means of ensuring colonists remain efficient, not lazy and trained to do the needed tasks. There are plenty of ways to have the robot behaviour in play and still retain controlling factors with the player... but random events are never a bad thing if done properly.
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iggii
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Re: General Suggestions and Questions

Post by iggii » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:16 pm

Some general questions/suggestions - I have went through released ingame videos, but didnt found this (srry if I overlooked it) - when some windstorms appear - will there be some dust/stuff floating in the air on the planet? And wind wailing and howling through your corridors (for example when they are empty_this would magnify the atmosphere of the game, perhaps make your collonists scared and searching for others), it could also make it more problematic to solve some breach through walls of your colony(if that happens) as the wind could draw the colonist/robot out if he is not tied to something (unless you say that this is useless game mechanics)...

And when you are descending with buildings to lower parts of map, maybe adding of flood pumps to game? (they would either require to be powered by electricity all the time, thus making it more demanding on your powermanagement otherwise floods on lower levels of base could occur/or they could be needed only when some accident happens down there...)

Rusk
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Re: General Suggestions and Questions

Post by Rusk » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:13 pm

I missed both the kickstarter and the indiegogo campaign but would still like to participate in the alpha/beta. What are my options?

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SimoRoth
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Re: General Suggestions and Questions

Post by SimoRoth » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:37 am

Rusk wrote:I missed both the kickstarter and the indiegogo campaign but would still like to participate in the alpha/beta. What are my options?
When the game gets to a sellable alpha state I will open up preorders. I'm currently being a bit picky, and want it to really feel like a game before I start taking peoples money enmasse.

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SimoRoth
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Re: General Suggestions and Questions

Post by SimoRoth » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:39 am

iggii wrote:Some general questions/suggestions - I have went through released ingame videos, but didnt found this (srry if I overlooked it) - when some windstorms appear - will there be some dust/stuff floating in the air on the planet? And wind wailing and howling through your corridors (for example when they are empty_this would magnify the atmosphere of the game, perhaps make your collonists scared and searching for others), it could also make it more problematic to solve some breach through walls of your colony(if that happens) as the wind could draw the colonist/robot out if he is not tied to something (unless you say that this is useless game mechanics)...

And when you are descending with buildings to lower parts of map, maybe adding of flood pumps to game? (they would either require to be powered by electricity all the time, thus making it more demanding on your powermanagement otherwise floods on lower levels of base could occur/or they could be needed only when some accident happens down there...)
Quite a lot of those things are in or going in. I really need to get more videos done!

The water pumps I'm not 100% sure of, its something in my design docs, but one of the things that felt a little superfluous. They may find their way back in.

Delgado
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Re: General Suggestions and Questions

Post by Delgado » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:17 pm

One question I want to ask and answer if possible. When can we purchase the game this month and are we going to be allowed to participate in Alpha or Beta if we pre-purchase? I don't know if this has been answered anywhere else as I am limited in time.


-Delgado

Roghan
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Re: General Suggestions and Questions

Post by Roghan » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:06 am

Hello, heard about the game today and decided to keep a close watch on it.

First, congratulations and good luck on your project Simon.

Secondly, for the general questions and suggestions:

1) How detail savvy will this game be?

As everyone knows its the details that make a game great. Details may not be crucial to the core gameplay but adds that little touch that makes the game memorable. Things like redundant aesthetics are a plus: The chill lounge has more than one type of chair and sofas, several types of vegetation, lights etc.

Room decoration perhaps? I understand its a "serious" colonization endeavor, but humans like to custom their stuff, making it look like home(and the colony is their home now isn't?). Doesn't need to be anything to 'Simish" (with lotsa bars and stuff)maybe just color. Maybe the colonist will ornate his private space, put some family pictures. Colonists will have private spaces right? Their own beds at least? Please say they will, this is a huge "detail".

Like previously suggested:
Idle random behavior: playing yo yo(?), reading at bed, chatting, stretching, yawing, etc.


2) Base maintenance and economy
Any hints at how the economy - if any - will run?

Colonists get paid? What do they expend their money on?

Who is the player? Will the game address us as someone, like a base commander or we will be generic god controllers? (might be a silly question, but if players are to be someone, where are they for example?)

Will there be base degradation? Trash pilling up; machinery breaking (not just from natural accidentes or water chips malfunction). If yes, how will these problems be dealt with?

What kind of roles can colonists perform and how they are controlled (for example in Space Colonies you could set Primary and Secondary jobs for your people, and they'd perform only that). Do they have different levels of expertise and can perhaps train to learn new tricks or improve old ones?


3) What's up with the IMPs?

Really i have mixed feelings about them. I both like and dislike them, bent more to the dislike. I wonder how other people feel about them.

I mean, why did you put them in the game? For me it looks like a homage to DK, which is fine, but i don't think its reason alone to justify it. First they look cartoonish, the sci fi counterpart of DK imps. But this game is not DK, i think it detracts from its allegedly grittiness.

How predominantly will they be on the game? Will there be more, less or about equal IMPs per humans? How hard it will be to build or dispose of them?

Why IMP and not colonists using bulldozers (or imps using bulldozers) ? I'm afraid too many IMPs will make humans obsolete for most of the game. Point in check, this is a true question/problem for the future, so it may not be a problem at all (human obsolesce i mean)

Why go cartoonish when the genre staple has human-like cyborgs (aliens really comes to mind)? There could be instead of imps, specialized robots. Small cleaning robots, tracked armored and armed crawlers, human like beer wenches, etc.
I know you won't drop your IMPs from the game as you are probably infatuated with your idea and may not feel like detaching from it, specially since you must have structured the game around it. sadly that's how things goes.


4) Will there be multi-level ? I've always dreamed the day builder games would allow me to multi-level my stuff. I mean, that's why people kind invented multi-story, because its space efficient right?
I can only dream of the beuty of my observation deck on sublevel 4 overlooking the hollow cave excavations. The panoramic elevator bringing people up and down. From surface, sliding down the multi-deck plaza with the side amenities shops and balconies overlooking the garden below, going all the way to the mining deck till it goes to the reactor room. Oh the beauty one can only dream.


5) I've seem around here an airlock pic. Its pretty neat. I can assume once inside the base people will wander with clothing? Will there be decontamination graphics?


6) the mini-sentry is neat. Bit it doesnt fit inside the base very much. How about some ceiling-mounted guns? Ground-popping ones perhaps?


What about base security. Will there be things like security cams, surveillance rooms with staff, alarms (preferably with rotating loud warning lights)? As someone suggest a system similar to Evil Genius would be great. Specially under a crisis. Oh, and psychological degradation due to abuse: Cool stuff!


7) What sort of control will we have over the colony? From what i gathered human control is almost null, am i right? What are the tools available to the player so he can avoid frustrating events, such a fire rampaging through your colony while nobody gives a fuck. Or your fellas dying one after the other because they can't group up to fight a creature together. I mean, can we at least give waypoints such as :everyone gather at mess hall, or all security personal go to base entrance. Stuff that's not controlling people, but would emulate basic sense in a community.



8) Yeah.. about rooms, how many types of rooms are we looking for here?
workshops, research, bedding, mess halls, hygiene, medical, lounges/social, training, exercising, processing, agricultural, energy... I believe these are all covered for, right? I mean, they are the basic stuff.

Oh, stuff built is defined by room type or can we mix?

Stuff will be built instantly or gradually? (with sparks and welding, that's the neat stuff)

Please please PLEASE. Make lots of room types.



9) How is time and climate gonna work

What's the speed of time in the game, and how will it affect the colonists needs. (ideally times doesn't passes too fast nor too slowly. No frantic sims 1 time jet-flying please).

Similarly i reckon the climate will also change (as seen from videos). What's the pace of the climate change and how will climate will affect stuff?


10) How deep will be the psychological aspect of the game?

How much of the colonists social lives will be tracked (as who is friends of who); what are their personalities, etc. Will the same be applied to robots?



That's about it for now. Sorry about the long post, the many questions and the lousy english. Thanks in advance!

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SimoRoth
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Re: General Suggestions and Questions

Post by SimoRoth » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:17 pm

Might be worth you checking out the Kickstarter updates as I did a big QA at some point and I think I covered some of this.
1) How detail savvy will this game be?
Lots of details are going in! Lots in the AI department and also with the exterior and science aspects. Also there will be lots to read!

As for decoration there will be some. The AI will want a well lit, well decorated base.
2) Base maintenance and economy
There will be a resource economy. That's been covered in detail before.

Colonists won't be paid, this is survival mission.
Will there be base degradation?
Lots!
3) What's up with the IMPs?


The current IMP's are quite placeholder and the tone of the game isn't entirely apparent from the current builds. . It will come together and everything will fit!Read the comments on the doors and you will get a hint that things are not as serious as they seem

They are important because they can do things faster and with less hassle than humans. You have more control over them, but at the same time, far less. They are an interesting contrast, and will have their own quirks.
Will there be multi-level ?
Yes but not until Milestone .50.
amenities shops and balconies overlooking the garden below
The colonies won't be that grandiose. This is basic survival!
5) I've seem around here an airlock pic. Its pretty neat. I can assume once inside the base people will wander with clothing? Will there be decontamination graphics?
Yeah the airlock sequence will be cool with lots of klaxxons and air and steam gushing about!
6) the mini-sentry is neat. Bit it doesnt fit inside the base very much. How about some ceiling-mounted guns? Ground-popping ones perhaps?
It's mostly used for exterior. There are some other defences that will be implemented. Those are currently secret!
7) What sort of control will we have over the colony? From what i gathered human control is almost null, am i right? What are the tools available to the player so he can avoid frustrating events, such a fire rampaging through your colony while nobody gives a fuck. Or your fellas dying one after the other because they can't group up to fight a creature together. I mean, can we at least give waypoints such as :everyone gather at mess hall, or all security personal go to base entrance. Stuff that's not controlling people, but would emulate basic sense in a community.
Correct, no control over humans apart from placing orders for them, that they may or may not ignore.

You can lock doors and there will be alarms and other ways to nudge people about.
8) Yeah.. about rooms, how many types of rooms are we looking for here?
Currently there are 7 rooms. In the final build I am hoping for 9 or so. They cover a lot of those, with the generic room type allowing for more flexibility.
Stuff will be built instantly or gradually? (with sparks and welding, that's the neat stuff)
Rooms will be built instantly in current builds. Objects and doors to rooms are built by the colonists. In later builds the colonists may have to build the rooms. I need to test the game to see if this makes the gameplay too tedious.
9) How is time and climate gonna work
1 day = about 6 minutes in realtime. I've gone into detail on the climate simulation so you can read up about that.
10) How deep will be the psychological aspect of the game?
Colonists will like/dislike each other. It won't be as deep as I hoped, but there is a whole load of simulation behind the scenes that will give the AI behaviour some interesting detail.

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