Minerals

Discussion of Maia's on going development, including modding.
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SimoRoth
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Minerals

Post by SimoRoth » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:53 pm

When you dig out out blocks, two types of rock might be left. Minerals, or rare minerals.

Just got a new mesh (first thing I've modeled for the game in weeks) for the standard minerals into the game:
Minerals.jpg
They have a physics mesh, so your characters have to path around them, which can impede a rushed mining operation.

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Teamwith1
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Re: Minerals

Post by Teamwith1 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:27 pm

SimoRoth wrote: They have a physics mesh, so your characters have to path around them, which can impede a rushed mining operation.
Good move
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vanatteveldt
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Re: Minerals

Post by vanatteveldt » Thu May 02, 2013 12:43 pm

One thing where DF certainly chose gameplay over realism is removal of rubble. A mining operation that removes X volume of earth should realistically produce X volume of rubble, which would have to be removed or else would clog the whole base. The minerals in the screenshot above seem to be a lot smaller than the mined out portion. Did you choose for easy gameplay here as well?

Ortwin
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Re: Minerals

Post by Ortwin » Sat May 04, 2013 11:08 pm

vanatteveldt wrote:One thing where DF certainly chose gameplay over realism is removal of rubble. A mining operation that removes X volume of earth should realistically produce X volume of rubble, which would have to be removed or else would clog the whole base. The minerals in the screenshot above seem to be a lot smaller than the mined out portion. Did you choose for easy gameplay here as well?
I second the above petition of worry.
Volumetric consistancy all the way. I want to create piles of rubble.

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Tikigod
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Re: Minerals

Post by Tikigod » Sat May 04, 2013 11:52 pm

Note: The remaining rocks are the left over minerals, not the left over rocks that made up the entire rock tile.

Walls would very unlikely be 100% mineral, infact even the current physical amount of mineral left over seems extremely high. :D
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SimoRoth
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Re: Minerals

Post by SimoRoth » Sun May 05, 2013 1:09 am

Yeah I certainly have no interest in having to remove thousands of tonnes of rock from a base. (one thing that annoyed me about towns was the ridiculous amount of useless mud blocks.)

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Belsameth
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Re: Minerals

Post by Belsameth » Sun May 05, 2013 12:05 pm

DF actually lowered the amount of stone that fell because of it.

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Tikigod
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Re: Minerals

Post by Tikigod » Sun May 05, 2013 8:28 pm

Belsameth wrote:DF actually lowered the amount of stone that fell because of it.
That and because they added weight consequences for movement speed when carrying stone without a wheelbarrow or minecart. :D

Speaking of, is the plan to have units transporting minerals to be processed/refined/stored or whatever it is that will be done with them, actually physically be seen to be carrying the minerals and have movement behaviour changed to reflect the extra weight and cumbersome task?
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Mark
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Re: Minerals

Post by Mark » Sun May 12, 2013 2:19 am

Ortwin wrote:
vanatteveldt wrote:One thing where DF certainly chose gameplay over realism is removal of rubble. A mining operation that removes X volume of earth should realistically produce X volume of rubble, which would have to be removed or else would clog the whole base. The minerals in the screenshot above seem to be a lot smaller than the mined out portion. Did you choose for easy gameplay here as well?
I second the above petition of worry.
Volumetric consistancy all the way. I want to create piles of rubble.
Did you think that out all the way?

If you carve out 1 cubic meter of compressed earth & stone and then leave it in a loose pile, it will probably take up 1.5 cubic meters of space because of all the irregularly fitting pieces of rubble.
So if you carve out 20 blocks you'd create 30 blocks worth of rubble and all of a sudden your adjoining 3x3 room gets flooded with said rubble.
Which is fine if it is empty, but not so good if you have a nuclear fission reactor in there :-)

To me, as much as I love realism in a physics system with volumetric meshing, realism might have to take a small back seat for the sake of game-play in this instance.
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vanatteveldt
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Re: Minerals

Post by vanatteveldt » Sun May 12, 2013 7:46 pm

Of all things bothering me in DF the lack of rubble is really the least :-)

I did not intend my earlier comment as a criticism or petition of worry, but as a genuine question. I realise that there is gameplay and realism and that choices have to be made, I was just wondering which one was made here and whether it was conscoius. (In any case, if DF of all games choses gameplay over realism they are probably right, since Toady choosing for gameplay seems such a rare event...)

Obviously, if the game were to have huge amounts of rubble, it would have to have something to get huge amounts of rubble out of the way, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterpillar_797 but probably more likely some sort of conveyer belt carting the stuff out. DF lacks most "plumbing" that you would expect to need in a fortress or a colony, such as chimneys / air ducst, heating and lighting in general, sewage, etc, and this infrastructure can give interesting occasion of invasions, problems, etc. since it needs to connect to the outside world.

An interesting example of air locks and rubble removal is the recent subway construction in Amsterdam. A lot of things are done under pressure to keep groundwater out until the walls are done, so for example the rubble from a station to tunnel breakthrough had to be removed by first cutting the stone into little pieces and then moving them throught the air lock by hand. So, in a colony with local atmosphere you would probably need some automatic dumping system to get rid of rubble and other refuse, which could be an attack vector.

What I am trying to say is that a gameplay problem also be a gameplay boon if designed properly, but obviously the interesting/complex tradeoff means that only so many problems can be turned into gameplay puzzels, and the game designer has the (presumably frustrating) task of deciding where to start and where to stop.

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